I’ve been thinking for a while that we should have an occasional open thread for readers at the Monkey Cage. After all, there are over a thousand of you, and only a few of us. Presumably you know stuff that is worth discussing here that we’re not aware of, or have opinions to express on topics that we don’t usually cover. So consider this an invitation to engage in some more free wheeling debate (and if this post gets a reasonably decent response, I will put up new open posts every month or so).
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This may be an interesting place to begin.
What are peoples’ thoughts on this rant on the lack of value in grad school education?
http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2009/02/03/dont-try-to-dodge-the-recession-with-grad-school/#more-2071
My take, the author shows a clear lack of understanding about why people who actually go to grad school choose that path–particularly PhD programs. She seems to assume an inherent entrepreneurial spirit within all of us, when in fact that is much better assumed to be an outlier event. If that is the case, why isn’t she saying any post-HS education is useless?
Would have been nice if she actually talked to some PhD students before calling it a ‘pyramid scheme’.
Trunk always says stuff like that, its a bit weird. As an applicant, its a bit late for me. If I were still thinking about grad school, I don’t think it would really change my thoughts. Most grad school applicants are pretty smart, and are pretty aware of their job prospects.
Speaking of weird, phd applicants in economics are up this year, it seems, and there is always a lot of discussion on the forums. Has anyone seen/enjoyed the analysis of the results forum posters have given in the past years. You might get a kick out of what you see.
Funny. A pyramid scheme is exactly how I (jokingly) explained to a friend of mine what were the prospects of doing a PhD in political science…
I disagree with some of what Penelope Trunk says in the linked post. I do agree, however, with the substance of her very first (and kind of obvious) point, which is that people should think before going to grad school rather than doing it quasi-automatically. I suspect, though, this advice is more needed by those who rush to law, medical or business school right after (or soon after) college than by those who apply to PhD programs.
As someone at a Masters-granting institution, I have seen the value in “testing the waters.” Before coming here, I simply thought that PhD students should simply “know” that it was for them….the time, debt, and opportunity costs are just so huge.
However, since being here, I’ve seen a good couple dozen students who THOUGHT they wanted to go on to a PhD program when they got here, but learned whether or not it was right for them. Now, the best ones (got one into Penn this year and I have a couple who should get into top 25 programs when they apply) knew they wanted a PhD and just wanted to boost the CV to get into a better one. But some have realized (or had their grades realize it for them) that grad school isn’t for them.
I guess what I’m saying is that we’re fortunate to have MA institutions in the system to perform this job of filtering for the PhD programs. Without the MA programs, there’d be a lot more applicants to straight PhD programs, and a lot of those extra applicants might end up dropping out if they got in.
That’s one of the more ill-informed screeds I’ve seen in a while. I can sum up my response with just one link, to some data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
http://www.bls.gov/emp/emptab7.htm
We should be encouraging as many people as possible to listen to this advice. It would certainly improve the market for those who are smart enough to know how wrong it is.
While still early in my grad school career, I definitely am glad that I did an MA Program before doing my PhD program. Not only did it give me a better idea of what to expect in a PhD program, it also showed me what I should be concentrating on (not just research interests) in my PhD program. Almost you get a second chance at the coursework, and you can fill in where you are weak.
It takes longer, and you do duplicate efforts in some areas. However, I have so far found it worth it.
Are there any good MA programs that offer fellowship support and consistent top-20 matriculatons (for students who wind up continuing)?
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